as the title says im currently looking for a 5th familar to help out in PVP. This is my current brigade:
Hrimthurs the Blizzard II, Bunga, the Stalwart II, Gorlin Gold Helm II, The Green Healer, Ghislandi, Iron Heart II
Formation is 5 - Tooth
Skills on greenhealer are ToF, MoS 3, Greater Recall
Now to the pain part replacing one of my favorite familars, ghislandi. Since i got him at the very begining after his release im really astonished of how long he lasted and still stand strong.
Im not sure of wether i get another rather tanky damage dealer in or if i go with a high agi fam.
I thought about Mathilda due to her agi/att/venomstorm that pretty much fits a def team and improves the overall low agi in my brigade.
Or if Id go with a tankier fam i could imagine Desna since he hits good and is kindof sustainable. Since his price is cool I could concentrate on my reserve pretty fast.
I think anything up to 100GH is realistic, i wouldnt care if it hits 120 130 for a really really good addition.
So id really appreciate any ideas of what familar you think fits best! And if someone got a good idea for a reserve that could match please dont hesitate to post :)
But anyway, I just realized a really important tweak. If you go with dual Bulwarks, Bunga should be in the center:
5-Rear
(Bulwark, ToF, Syphon)
This will give him a 91% of being bulwarked, rather than 70%.
Awesome find , didnt think about this yet. Thanks Jareif.
BlazingLightFire wrote:
I'll make one more suggestion.
If you r gunna roll with DEF / WIS use it to the absolute maximum.
5-Rear
(ToF / BoMS2 / Syphon)
This is the brigade ill roll with for now. Lets see how fast i get my hands on Rasiel and/or haok. Once i got them i will decide on wether the BoMS2 is really neccessary and upgrade to this:
Sounds good man. In all honesty, I'd avoid this team as an opponent in PvP. Defensive GHs seem to roast me with ToF every time.
One final little note: in your initial Regin team, you'll have to decide whether you'd prefer to have one of your Regins bulwarked, or your GH. If you want your GH Bulwarked (which I think would be my preference), just switch Bunga and Gorlin in that formation layout. Bulwark on GH will technically mute Syphon a bit, but who really cares if in exchange your GH lives longer.
That's right, the effect of wards is not stackable. What I was highlighting in this situation is that the fam positioned where the two Bulwarks overlap will have a 91% chance of getting Bulwark. Chance of both buffs failing: 30% * 30% = 9%. Thus, the chance of getting at least one: 100% - 9% = 91%.
EDIT: Apparently the user who posted the question I was answering removed his post, but I'll go ahead and leave this here, just for information.
I must say, that this has been my favourite thread on this forum so far. Not only has Blazing thought seriously about defence (might have been a bit unnatural), but Jareif has also really pulled out the stops with some excellent formation ideas.
However, I bring ill tidings (said in LOTR voice). :-) I believe that as a WIS/DEF brig user, my experience has been tested, and is not just hypothesis.
Though the solutions posited by Blazing and Jareif are both very strong defensively, I've tested similar solutions, and found something better. It doesn't look better, but it sure does work better. I'll explain why.
Both Blazing's and Jareif's solutions count on DEF being very strong, and allowing for ToF to have time to proc and kill all. A good strategy. But, against my own WIS/DEF brig, both solutions would lose. What I found (through experimentation) is that WIS fams need to come out and OHKO straight away at their first proc. To do this, I use GoR on my WL. I did receive good advice to use BoM&S2 on my WL, but I was so happy with the results I was getting, I never did it. I do see its benefit though, but I weighed that against GoR buffed Iseult and Astaroth, and decided not to.
You see, none of Aflnickh2's WIS attacks will KO back row fams on their own. So the inherent weakness will be against other WIS/DEF teams. Against ATT or AGI teams, the go later but go hard strategy is a good one, and will easily take out front row fams. But backrow WIS team is a different kettle of fish completely. If 3 WIS fams are buffed by GoR, then you are dead. Simple as that. Thats why my multiplier is 1.25. IMO WIS teams need to OHKO as much as possible, because you will be going second. You may not get to a third round. When my fams proc, its all over in seconds. 3 or 4 fams instantly dead, and close to winning, or have just won, if 2 of my fams proc back to back.
So, my opinion is that the set-up that Blazing and Jareif prescribed, will do well against physical teams. This flaw against WIS teams could be counter-balanced by Blazing's original GoW3 suggestion, but far better than that (to me) is to try to get your WIS fams to OHKO everything on first proc.
Blazing's brig's advantage, is adding WIS and DEF to all fams. But I don't think its enough to beat a WIS team which fams are GoR buffed.
Jareif's brig concentrates purely on outlasting the other team with DEF, then winning by accumulative WIS attacks. Again, I think this will work against ATT-AGI teams, but a GoR buffed WIS team would win. I've come up against buffed Bungas, and they're gone in one hit from GoR buffed Windcrush or Firecell Roar. My GM had Firecell Roar too, so its maxed attacks from 3 fams.
To me, this is the way to go. A halfway house would be to position Narluce between GM and Astaroth. Narluce's DEF is increased by WIS. And we're talking about a 50% buff from GoR of GM WIS. So if GoR buffs, then Narluce adds half of its DEF back to itself and also to Astaroth and GM (or GH as it would be). Not as good as Gorlin, but still significant. The reason I have Iseult on the left, is that it attacks 4 fams, so thats why that one is protected by Gorlin. Astaroth is deadlier, but since it hits less fams, I chose Iseult to be most protected. But my preference looks weaker than the suggestions from Blazing and Jareif, and maybe it is, in terms of DEF. But the buffed WIS from 3 fams, GM or GH included, will decide the battle. GH has an advantage over GM, in that if it doesn't proc GoR, its still tanky enough to make the second round. No trouble.
I know I've only confused things - but I don't mind that.
What has always troubled me with putting together defensive teams is that they are typically physically defensive, but not actually very tough at all against WIS attacks. Yet, it's not very feasible to make a brigade that is extremely tanky in terms of both physical and WIS attacks (aside from using super-duper L fams). Granted, a defensive WIS team at least has the benefit of having high WIS, so they have more resistance to WIS-based attacks than a defensive ATK team would, but it's still not enough. So, as you correctly concluded, this kind of strategy would require careful opponent selection.
GoR is another valid approach, akin to SoB being used in ATK teams. It guarantees your attacks will be deadly. You just have to survive long enough to proc.
Well Jareif, I would be 1.3 on at least one of my brigs (maybe both), if not for some bad luck in the last PvP. And though I have spent money on my ATT/AGI brig, my WIS/DEF brig is totally from free play, and until recently, it was the stronger team. Now with a Haokah on the way, it might get the better of my other brig again.
I've really enjoyed seeing Blazing putting on his DEF cap, ......I think it was a very snug fit. :-)
Ashebash wrote: I must say, that this has been my favourite thread on this forum so far. Not only has Blazing thought seriously about defence (might have been a bit unnatural), but Jareif has also really pulled out the stops with some excellent formation ideas.
However, I bring ill tidings (said in LOTR voice). :-) I believe that as a WIS/DEF brig user, my experience has been tested, and is not just hypothesis.
Though the solutions posited by Blazing and Jareif are both very strong defensively, I've tested similar solutions, and found something better. It doesn't look better, but it sure does work better. I'll explain why.
Both Blazing's and Jareif's solutions count on DEF being very strong, and allowing for ToF to have time to proc and kill all. A good strategy. But, against my own WIS/DEF brig, both solutions would lose. What I found (through experimentation) is that WIS fams need to come out and OHKO straight away at their first proc. To do this, I use GoR on my WL. I did receive good advice to use BoM&S2 on my WL, but I was so happy with the results I was getting, I never did it. I do see its benefit though, but I weighed that against GoR buffed Iseult and Astaroth, and decided not to.
You see, none of Aflnickh2's WIS attacks will KO back row fams on their own. So the inherent weakness will be against other WIS/DEF teams. Against ATT or AGI teams, the go later but go hard strategy is a good one, and will easily take out front row fams. But backrow WIS team is a different kettle of fish completely. If 3 WIS fams are buffed by GoR, then you are dead. Simple as that. Thats why my multiplier is 1.25. IMO WIS teams need to OHKO as much as possible, because you will be going second. You may not get to a third round. When my fams proc, its all over in seconds. 3 or 4 fams instantly dead, and close to winning, or have just won, if 2 of my fams proc back to back.
So, my opinion is that the set-up that Blazing and Jareif prescribed, will do well against physical teams. This flaw against WIS teams could be counter-balanced by Blazing's original GoW3 suggestion, but far better than that (to me) is to try to get your WIS fams to OHKO everything on first proc.
Blazing's brig's advantage, is adding WIS and DEF to all fams. But I don't think its enough to beat a WIS team which fams are GoR buffed.
Jareif's brig concentrates purely on outlasting the other team with DEF, then winning by accumulative WIS attacks. Again, I think this will work against ATT-AGI teams, but a GoR buffed WIS team would win. I've come up against buffed Bungas, and they're gone in one hit from GoR buffed Windcrush or Firecell Roar. My GM had Firecell Roar too, so its maxed attacks from 3 fams.
To me, this is the way to go. A halfway house would be to position Narluce between GM and Astaroth. Narluce's DEF is increased by WIS. And we're talking about a 50% buff from GoR of GM WIS. So if GoR buffs, then Narluce adds half of its DEF back to itself and also to Astaroth and GM (or GH as it would be). Not as good as Gorlin, but still significant. The reason I have Iseult on the left, is that it attacks 4 fams, so thats why that one is protected by Gorlin. Astaroth is deadlier, but since it hits less fams, I chose Iseult to be most protected. But my preference looks weaker than the suggestions from Blazing and Jareif, and maybe it is, in terms of DEF. But the buffed WIS from 3 fams, GM or GH included, will decide the battle. GH has an advantage over GM, in that if it doesn't proc GoR, its still tanky enough to make the second round. No trouble.
I know I've only confused things - but I don't mind that.
Best thread. Loved it. :-)
Thanks dude :) awesome input. I guess i will just need to test some tweaks for myself later on. Good thing is your brigade suggestions is pretty cheap. Next pvp event ill just test out GoR/BoM&S2, Since ive got a narluce left i can see how he works out. I thought about getting a astha for 1 of the regins ( of the brigade i posted in my last post - original posted by Blazing)
ill just see how things go :)
I really really liked the thread aswell! Didnt expect such awesome input. You guys really helped me aloooot! THANK YOU!
Dakalus, no offense intended, but since your team is different to the original poster, then maybe you should simply post a fresh thread for your question. That way there would be no confusion between answers to your question, and late answers to the original question. Plus, it helps tidyness. Moderators like that sort of thing......and it makes sense to be honest.
