As you know, Ninja Proc Rate is our new layman term for rigged battle, where the (usually more inferior) opposing brigade trash your own carefully built brigade with constant near-100% proc rate chance, vs 0% proc rate chance from your own brigade.
Nothing worse than looking at your Tier A+ fams getting crushed to death by a brigade with fams that use Rush (DeNa's old favorite), Flash of Rage, Berserk, Massive Assault (OMG!), Thundercloud (yeah, that can happen!), Helfire, and you name it...
.... simply because it wasn't a fair fight, but your own brigade really got silenced and proc nothing during battle; whereas the other brigade happily trampled all over them.
Well, post your battle report here, and show to the world the worst experience you had...
On 2nd battle; facing a level 103 GM w/ 1.16 title -- all backrow formation;
No opening proc (GoW3 or GoW from GDK) or any Atk skill proc from my brigade, wheres the other side's GM proc'ed GoW2 then Rebuke. Okay, can still take that.... But then an R2 Alcina proc'ed TotH...... each hit amazingly did about 10k of damage... Felt it was more powerful that it supposed to be... a few fams dead. Then to finish off an R2 Okuni proc'ed Whirlwind..... 3 Ninja-proc vs no proc
Result: One turn - that's all it takes to take out my brig.
Funny because I try not to remember the Ninja Proc battles, but they have caused me to throw my phone (once) in sheer frustration and in phase one of this PvP to walk away and play COD the last 5 hours of the tournament causing me to drop 1000+ in rank..
I believe all the ninja proc victims all run AGI brigade?
I used to run AGI brigade (7 ASKs, 2 Morens, and GM), in the phase 1, I got ninja procced several times and it really got me frustated.
But on phase 2, I "down grade" my brig to Mixed brig (5 BKs, 3Morens, Ignis, GM), I never once lose in battle lower than 12. I even only broke the streak on 12 once and that was caused by WK running BW2 as buffer. The formation is Shield 3 Morens, Ignis, BK main and 4 Bks, GM reserve.
In my case, eventhough Morens arent buffed with Ignis' BoMB2, they still kill opposing fam in the first turn. Double auto on one turn with 11k ATT buffed with PvP multi is really deadly.
So IMHO, AGI brig got ninja procced so often because they are not strong enough to auto the enemy to death on the first turn.
Actually, it doesn't really matter whatever your brig is...
Whatever your lineup is, you will be Ninja-proc'ed to death by a lesser team, if they keep proc'ing and you're not....
It's just that if you're running an Agi brig, speed being unequal, it's more painful to witness that your fams have the first strike chance, yet floundered them, only to be butchered by constant proc later...
I've been ninja-proc'ed to death by those Guerson which continually freeze my fams, while the other Massive Assault fams butchered them.
Another case: Remember those Thors? How would you like to have been served two dishes of Electric Shock ? Reserve came in and they didn't proc, Thor proceeded to proc his skill again in the next turn...
Okay, another case of Ninja Proc (not against a weaker team):
Current title: 1.25 -- standard ASK brigade with ASK POPE400 - GM (LW, GoW3, Syphoon) - ASK OPE200 - Montu OPE200 - Dharva OPE200 -- in W-formation
Decided to take on a brigade with 1.14 title: Gathoic - Amphis - Gathoic - Amphis - Gathoic
15th battle in Blood Clash, tons of pts to take, decided to do All-Out Attack...
Should be a breeze, right? What could go wrong? No buffer fam in the other brigade, higher title, and on All-Out mode.... Either one of my fam should be able to take out the entire L-brig in 1 proc.
Except that ALL 10 of them got Proc amnesia, whereas one of the opposing Amphis got 100% proc rate throughout the entire fight, using both of his Attacks to proc Trial of Fire & Trial of Ice... everytime...
Result: Waste of 3 bugles... that ninja Amphis was still alive when it's over.
I know my team is an average one= [Doog-montu-ragnar-GL(GOW3,syphon,soj)-ASK] [Rapse-iron golemnII-lanvall-alc-desna,] but they are constantly beaten by fomors,at ws 3,6,9 which is my main enemy, rather than amphis or hel....ain't that a shame....
I got 1.5 title this round with my Ragnar team. Before I switched to my ATT Ragnar team I was at the mercy of procs. I've had some matches where the other team procs 6 times and I had one proc. Having an ATT team has made me less proc dependent.
But against a team with Iji (the EP2 not the L), GM (Chillhorn, BoMS2), Grellas, Iseult, Grimoire...1.18 title- All-backrowed formation.
My brigade: ASK200 - WK (BoMB2, HB, CnD) - Ragnar200 - ASK200- Doog II POPE
1.35 title, all-front formation.
Opening proc went as normal. Thanks to BoMB2, the ASKs with its 14k Atk stat actually hit quite hard, but against a backrowed enemy, well, you know... The bad news is nothing proc'ed, normal pre-requisite for another sh*tty ninja proc session....
The opponent's turn... GM started with Chillhorn, hit 3x killed 2 fams. Then Iseult with Windcrush... another 1 fam died, but WK's CnD killed the Iseult. Then it was Ijiraq's turn... another proc.. Frost & Ice.... both the WK and last remaning ASK died...
Result: 0 proc vs 3 constant proc.... I got the feeling if I survived the last Frost & Ice, the last Grellas would also proc Ghasthunt... LoL...
Also gives validation that DeNa doesn't block us with an invincible L-brig from 13th battle. Any brig will do fine... so long as you give them Ninja proc skill....
It's probably time to make a gradual exit from this most heavily rigged game in the world... No more Gh or Md from reliquaries - bazzar start to run dry, then more OP L-fams will be due for sale soon... just gettin' tired of this whole idiotic schemes....
Hey nomad, its 20th battle. You are too focusing on the # of enemy procs against you no proc at all. The chance your fam does not proc at all is actually quite big, it is around 16.8%. Or do you expect you can hit 30th battle each time you PvP? Then you'll rant the game is too easy.
So fairly speaking one in twenty battle your brig does not proc is already good. I dont think that many people could get into 20th battle, you are amont top 10% of the players.
So here is my 2 cents: If you hate and feel that the proc rate is rigged at all time on top of all the reasons you mentioend, then do as you have planned, 'gradual exit' from the game.
It's a game run not by you, if you feel the game is not fun anymore, you could:
1. Write complains to the company that run the game and hope they change the proc rate for your account to 100%, drop 100 gh everyday, and so on
2. Find other games that you'll have fun with and best not run by the same company.
It's a game bro, I feel like you are not in a healthy relationship with BBro :p
I think you misunderstood me there a little.... Reading back what I wrote, I think I might make mistakes too in portraying the event...
I'm not very upset about it... I've already had an easy sail on these streaks.. And my fam collection had been diverse enough that I don't have to normally rely too much on ASKs for most of the battles; so I've switched around all the time. By 21st battle, I'm sure to face a Legendary OP-brig anyway, so at this stage, I was looking to reset my streak.
It's kinda hillarious that I have to be stopped by THAT brig though... was just showing that once in a blue moon, something like that can happen anytime.
I argued that the fact that although it happened on 20th battle, doesn't mean it justify it to have to be harder... as there is the difference in the quality of the brig, title, and of course, the probability game.
Made a calculation a while back on the probabilities (not very professionally made, mind you), the chance of none of your fams not proc'ing at all is actually around 56% on its own (eg: 5 fams against solitary Boss). But if you tabulate it against the probability of the other opposing team's proc rate, the figure went like this:
All things being equal (eg: same familiars on either side, equal title); there is 24% chance that neither brig proc'ed, 14% chance that only 1 fam in your brig proc'ed - opposing brig - NONE, and 14% chance that 1 of theirs proc'ed and NONE of yours.
The above equates to about 52% chance that the first turn would fulfill any of the above 3 conditions...
Of course, if you have many ASKs (or any of the more powerful OP L-fams) in your brigade that take the first turn in battle, theoretically, there is a 14% chance that you'd win the battle with the first proc... LoL....
By contrast, the chance that 3 of your fams proc'ed and NONE of theirs or vice versa, was only 2.1935% on either side.
I've had many wins, when I could similarly experience that my brig proc 3 times in a row, and being usually have the higher Agi vs the other brig, equal instant win. I felt that it was also an unfair win. I don't like it that I have too many generous proc rate in the beginning, only to pay it back with worsening proc rate, as it is a the moment.. Why can't we just have a fair proc rate from the 1st streak..
But I do gettin' tired of spending too much time on this game, and I've taken the decision that the time spent doesn't equal the reward or getting cheated and still hooked...LoL.... So it's time to wind down on the game.
Wouldn't bother writing complains.... I've looked through their feedback pages, others have wrote about the many annoying things around (too many money bags, etc); either they'd get a negative response, or no response at all. So why bother?
I've had a good time, and have a kickass brig, but it's time to spend less time in the game... and more on doing other things...
Yeah, what I see from your post is kind of endless ranting about something that happened like one in twenty battles as if they are happend one in one battle... Let's be honest, you sure have won against all-L high tier brig once in a while too right? Isnt it hillarious for you to win against those brig with all high end L with your brig? Then why not a much weaker birgade can win against yours?
"It's probably time to make a gradual exit from this most heavily rigged game in the world..." -> you made it sound like all the odds are against you. I'm sure it's not as rigged as you potrayed it to be in your mind.
"I argued that the fact that although it happened on 20th battle, doesn't mean it justify it to have to be harder... as there is the difference in the quality of the brig, title, and of course, the probability game." -> so lower streak should be harder and higher streak easier? I bet you'd rant more that way not able to pass 3th streak... and blamed on the probability game. You know what is best about probability? The fact that 0.00001% is not equal to 0. Even there is a tiny peevy bit of chance, you might get it. This works for everyone including your opponent you picked in PvP.
I'm not the brightest kid in the highschool either, but I'm pretty sure your calculation is a bit off unless you can show the calculations.
I know I'm a bit harsh but I also been quite tired seeing everyone ranting about almost everything in the game. Especially when bloodbound GH is introduced to relinquary chest.
So I'm sorry if I offend you in anyway (which I think I already did), so I apologise if I offended you too much nomad. I just want you (and everyone else) to have a better playing experience by staying positive rather than ranting and upset everytime you play this game.
This is one of the worst defeats I had in this past PVP event. I lost to a low tier Fam team consisting of a LVL 154 WK w/Blade Break II/Hellfire/????, EP 1* Iron Golem, EP 4* Lanvell, EP 4* Sita, EP 4* Ghislandi, EP 2* Ios and their reserve had 5 EP 4* Artemisia using Rear 5 formation. I was stumped on how I lost and my WL even proc'd Payback only once and none of my Fams proc'd at all.......
And about "Ninja procs" NO ONE can prove they exist, I don't believe anyone here programed the game, so you can only go by your in-game experience and there are countless posts about this type of thing.
In general, whether you have hard proven facts in life....if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, taste like a duck, chances are it's probably a duck.
I know I know.....there are no conspiracies.....EVER...
Lee Harvey Oswald was the only shooter, with his magic bullet that changed directions in mid filght.
And O.J. Simpson and Casey Anthony were both framed by vindictive white guys.
@Dakhanavar: well yes? Is that a bad thing? Whats your point?
Ninja procs is just a coined term born in this very wiki for "the loss in battle where you feel that your opponent procs endlessly and your brig none". So yeah the term ninja procs exists just as the term naivety.
Do you reckon everyone was taught U.S.A. history in the school? -_-;
I had a battle recently in 5 vs 5 where the fight went into the 3rd round without any procs for me or even any buffs. The other team had 3 procs during the fight with 2 of them coming during round 3. I had higher title multiplier and a faster team so I went first every round. That was frustrating.
I also notice that during the early rounds against easy teams I get constant procs almost as if the game is mercifully ending the fight sooner to get it over with.
Looks like I'm not alone, as my experience is exactly like yours. In the earlier streaks, my heavy-hitters almost always have a 100% proc rate, which finish the job in the first turn.
I followed your suggestion earlier of switching to Atk fams, and it did help a little to mitigate the chance of Ninja-proc problems.
Usually my Atk brig will have: Rapse (his SoJ is as strong as HB in PvP) - WK - Ragnar - Nehasim - Mathilda. Even with Auto-Atk, depending on formation, my brig can already take out usually 2 - 3 weaker, lower title opposing fams. Tankier fams, and backrowed Wis brigs still give me trouble w/ Ninja-proc though... so it happens...
Spartan363, you've just described another perfect Ninja proc event.... happened to my ASKs brigade too a couple of times. Frustrating to be beaten with a Tier-B teams with Artes that proc to death...
No, I'm not offended with your post. To each their own. But may I remind you that from this thread's title, this is supposed to be where people can safely rant about Ninja proc?
You seemed to have made it quite clear that everything is fair and square, but there is no need to counter anyone's rant to keep making your point.
I have the same strong feeling that proc rates on my brig is very high during the early streaks and after 9 streaks or more and seems super low on the 15th...but 16th/17th seems ok again and 18th is usually my brig being a sitting duck.
I guess we need a more scentific way of proofing this (or unless someone gets their hand on BB's source code)...
I assumed you went to a school that would have taught WORLD history which the USA is a part of and the JFK assination was world news just like I learned about the assination of Anwar Sadat, he was the President of Egypt that was assinated. Perhaps you're just from one of those countries that hates the US and doesn't allow anyone to learn about our history, I could see that, my bad. I have a pretty strong background in math as well and it would be very naive of someone to ignore the numbers of the same issues at the same battles across a world wide body of players, statistics would show there are certain battles that are altered within the mechanics of the game.
As for is there a problem with ranting about people ranting, we have freedom of speech here so preach on brother, I just think it's kind of a waste of time, in a thread that is designed for ranting about "Ninja Procs".
I apologize to the makers of this thread for going off topic, this is not what thread is about and people shouldn't hijack peoples threads with opinions about the topic or other issues.
Oh ok I apologise again for failing to read the thread title. And for off-topic ranting, or perhaps discussion?
I will let the cat out of the bag, this is related to the PvP mechanics, the beloved ninja proc and why it occurs:
Before the battle starts your probability to win is already calculated, wheter it is only 10%, 50%, or 90% (I mind you these numbers are just for illustration) based on your brig strength and your opponent strength.
So when you click the "Battle" button, that is when the dice is rolled. If you the dice roll win on you, the following battle (animation) is just an after effect of that result. The game will make you win no matter how the odds are against you. Or... the other way around :)
Here is a battle that might convince you guys, it was taken from monroegery's alt account history fight:
The dice is rolled, and the opponent hit, gets lose as the result.
Then no matter how, the opponent will lose. He said it was cleaned up by his GM's ToF (the GM isnt at max level yet, so it was not the first to move).
So on the higher streaks, the odd of you winning is probably getting smaller thats why no matter how weak your opponent brig is. The probability of you losing is still high and probably close to 100% lose rate. Thats when you get lose as result of the dice rolled. Then the game will make you lose in the most pathetic way, no proc vs all proc.
So what are the things that contribute to the probability of winning/losing? That is us to figure out I guess, one thing I'm sure off, I found out the AGI brig is not that invicible due to their low Auto. I run AGI brig before and it was not really reliable, losing on the usual odd streak. But yeah let's save this for another discussion/thread.
I hope I clear up a bit about ninja proc, and please keep on ranting, I wouldnt mind anymore hohoho
Side Notes to Dhakanavar: I dont think Countries outside U.S.A. teaches history about U.S.A. or other countries in general -_-; Yeah, I am from Indonesia and there is hardly anything in history class that mentions about other country history in general, not only U.S.A bro... But I could be wrong, maybe U.S.A is really that famous in the rest of the world :p
And about the probability thing, I was referring to Nomad's:
"All things being equal (eg: same familiars on either side, equal title); there is 24% chance that neither brig proc'ed, 14% chance that only 1 fam in your brig proc'ed - opposing brig - NONE, and 14% chance that 1 of theirs proc'ed and NONE of yours."
The chance of noone proc in a turn is really low actually, since its an event that depend on other event to occur first, so the calculation must be:
0.7^10 * 100% = 2.82475249%
One proc of enemy and none of ours:
(0.3 * 0.7^4) * 5 -> one of enemy procs, times five since it can be any one out of five fam that proc
0.7^5 -> none of your fam proc 0.16807
So it is (0.3 * 0.7^4) * 5 * 0.7^5 = 6.05304105%
But yeah, again, I have a habit to be off topic -_-;
I just faced another brigade with Waheela and Madrid L-fams... it's actually okay. They don't really have anything strong killer fams...
The opposing Wk proc'ed BW2, while my Doog failed to proc GoW3, which means Waheela take the first turn, and dispell -- Ah, still no problem so far. Neither of my ASKs actually proc anyways... then my new Linnorm cast White Ruin and eliminate half of their brig.... and then the problem starts.....
....the opposing brig's WK survived that White Ruin... and then have 100% proc rate of his Head Bash. Fantastic..... the battle went for 3 turns - that equals 3 Head Bashes.... if only my own WK can keep proccing Head Bash like that... LoL....
I think back in the old days when I have a mixed of Tier A and B teams, I can still recall facing a brig with Mathilda that proc'ed 3 times in a row too.
On the other hand, I've seen some of my own fams blessed with generous proc rate and one of my ASKs can proc every turn....(Of course, never happened in 3rd, 6th, 9th, or 12th battles). Are these rigged, or it's just plain fair game? LoL...
I don't think having an ASK is pre-requisite for Ninja-proc to happen. LoL... I've mixed around my brig; but when it will still happen quite consistently on certain battles... most notably the 6th on this 17th PvP Event....
Proc It Like It's Hot (A Parody by Dakhanavar aka Mark L.)
When your brigades on a run Proc it like it's hot Proc it like it's hot Proc it like it's hot Beat by a team full of R1s Proc it like it's hot Proc it like it's hot Proc it like it's hot Throw my phone with an attitude Proc it like it's hot Proc it like it's hot Proc it like it's hot De-N-A's got the Ninja Procs on and we're bound to lose 3, 6, or 9 don't matter which you choose
I've got a nice team, with some nice sweapers No Hollofernyiges, but see that Gatekeeper? PVP tournament, now that's my game Got a million bugles, that I've saved The Legendary, one I really want Win two, then I'll really flaunt I can school you, make this your degree Leave you salty, like you the f**kin Dead Sea F**kin treasure bags, in my way use some mandrakes, save the day On a roll, Eight win streak nine's easy, the brigs are weak What the hell?!?! I might lose this De-N-A Nija Procs some Bullsh** what just happened, what did I see? Can't believe Artemisia just killed me
When your brigs on a run Proc it like it's hot Proc it like it's hot Proc it like it's hot Beat by a team full of R1s Proc it like it's hot Proc it like it's hot Proc it like it's hot Throw my phone with an attitude Proc it like it's hot Proc it like it's hot Proc it like it's hot De-N-A's got the Ninja Procs on and we're bound to lose 3, 6, or 9 don't matter which you choose
Okay, just been Ninja-proc'ed to death on 6th battle...
I'm facing Adonis - Lanvall - PK - Odin - Bunga with a couple of reserve Odins and Ghis.
My brig has ASK - WK - Linnorm - ASK - Doog II with Ragnar, Nehasim, Math, Rapse, and Kyt as reserve.
No GoW3 from the Doog; ZERO Attack proc. My Linnorm survived for 3 turns - yet no proc... (where is my 30% proc rate?)... The other side's Lanvall & Odin proc relentlessly and decimate my front line. My reserve killed most of their front-line in Auto-Attack. But a couple of FoRs and Berserks later.... so much for my Tier-S / A+ brig....
DeNa, you might as well bring those GM + 9 Amphis on 6th battle to achieve the same result... At least it doesn't feel too embarassing.... LoL...
ASK - WK - Ragnar - ASK - Doog - all front-rowed. My title: 1.12
No opening proc on my side - the other side's GL does BoMS2 - quite standard. My entire brig goes first despite lack of GoW3; but nothing procs.... Oh-oh-oh... Yellow Alert!
Then the opposing's GL does Rush... okay, WK C&D him once.... Rush from backrowed = moderate damage to the brig. Some worse than others b'cos they got hit twice... but still, survivable...
Then Libuse did Brave Blade..... whoopsie!! Atk Skill from backrowed bring - another moderate damages to the entire brig...
Then Odin did FoR and finished off the miniscule HP that each of my fams still had with his 3k - 4k per hit..... That's it, it's all over in 1 turn....
Opening proc + 3 Atk proc VS absolutely ZERO proc on my side...
I don't think if I switched around to all Atk fams, it wouldn't have worked, as the opposing brig is backrowed. OPE ASK actually have a quite good Atk stat... around 14k, which is even better compared to POPE Heca...
AND if I have the Atk fams, there would had been no SoB buff too... from either Cat or Griffin in the same scenario... So you can't really OHKO anyone with Auto-Attack.
Conclusion: The battle is rigged from the start so that I would lose.
I think even a brig of Amphis could be decimated by a brig with Fomors this way.. LoL..
I anecdotally confirm everything NomadR1der has said. It's all pretty obvious. I mean, some BB defenders have said that it's all in our head and that we shouldn't complain about a little bad luck happening from time to time. But, doesn't it seem a little odd that our bad luck always seems to happen on certain well known win streaks like 6 and 15. And, remember, I haven't seen anyone complain about losing for losing's sake. What I've seen, is people complaining about losing because their opponent's proc goes crazy while theirs is taking a nap... for battles 6 and 15 of course. In the field of law, that's called "specific consistency" and it counts as strong circumstantial evidence. Moreover, I am one of those players who very luckily landed a Hel from the first tier of a Tier Pact a few months ago. Since I knew that I would never have the Ghs to get the other side of him to evolve, I sold him for 1900 Ghs (back when he was going for that much) and used my windfall to build 3 fully stacked 10 man Tier S+ - A+ squads on three different accounts. And I made one of each(attack, agility, wis)... and added little one off strategies like bulwark, cloak and dagger, greater recall, etc. And, guess what, ninja proc happens to all three accounts and all three types of teams at the very same rate and at the very same win streaks and in the very same way... if we're all being honest, the only true difference maker in this game boils down to 2 simple things: 1.) How much time spent on it (using natural regen to its fullest) and 2.) Gallahorn usage. We all know this, but just don't want to admit it. We want it to be something else, but, it just isn't. I'm cool with that. Are you?
I don't know what DeNa is trying to achieve with these Ninja-procs in the long term, but in the end, I'm just getting pretty bored with them. Those 30% Atk skill chance only holds its value on paper, never in practice....
Add to the fact that nowadays, due to the lack of Gh, bazzar is no longer interesting. No, I'm not a speculative fam hoarder, but trading has always been another appealing aspect of the game. With Gh gone, DeNa successfully deleted another positive thing about the game.
Both of the above only signifies very bad management of the game.
I think I've tolerated them long enough... been playing for 6-8 months. Back when I first started, Ninja-proc wasn't that much of an issue, & L-brigade didn't stonewall us on 12th battle. Back then, the biggest issue for me was a GM with ToF combo... really OHKO my earliest brigade in 1 swipe. Nowadays, death by GW/TOF combo is a rarity, death by Ghislandi/Odin/Artemisia combo is a more common occurance.
Given DeNa's management record, I think it will just keep going downhill from here on. They would sure to change something else for the worse.
So I've decided to take an early retirement from this game and invest my time in other activities, or other games...
Hate to hear that NormadR1der but I totally understand the sentiment. I've invested too many hours and a little bit of cash so I have to stick it out and see where this game is headed, but I'm not liking the way it's going. The Ninja proc issue now seems to be a minor inconvenience compared to the MAJOR issues created by DeNA.
None of my 4 70% procs went off,as pretty much any of my abilites. I still kept up though, but right before i won with the one on one each with an easy 1 regular hit to kill, the match was a decisive loss.
I run the five-man team below, and my WL is level 155:
I once lost to a four-man team whose WL was level 85. They had 4 Golad the Mighty, all rear. It took three turns, and their Golads procced each time, and none of mine procced, not even the buffs. This was at win streak 4, when usually it's really easy to beat enemies. Even in God of Steel PvP events, I rarely lose before win streak 14-15. It was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.
I just might have a ninja proc party, because i was just told on my earlier post that i have a tier 1 brig.. And i typically go 15+... This is my brig all PE, and my Lahamu is POPE.
B)Crystalwing roc, F)Sir Galahad Drake Knight, B)GoldenLance, F)Gallahad Drake Knight, B)Gallahad Drake Knight (I personally feel that setup is at least half decent,as the stacking agility results in very painfull team clears, and the shield and dagger abilities protects my knights and takes care of rush typically) occasionally i place Gallahad in the back, and Artemisia Swiftfoot in the front, as well as remove the Twintail for my Unicorn)
Backrow B)Artemisia Swiftfoot, F)Fomor the Savage II, B)Lahamu Royal Viper, F)Golad The Mighty, B)Twintail sandwalker.